tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post6462995685104630278..comments2020-12-10T12:27:09.869-08:00Comments on Theologi-Keal: Why was Jesus a man not a woman?Solomon Kealhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-10019438477585189722018-05-15T13:54:14.678-07:002018-05-15T13:54:14.678-07:00I agree that the story of Adam and Eve is not hist...I agree that the story of Adam and Eve is not historically factual, but rather a Biblical parable. And I agree that that story has been used to underpin male exploitation and hatred of women. But I don't think that that was the original intent of the parable of Adam and Eve. I agree that 1st Corinthian 11 regards women as secondary, etc., and seems to disregard the truth that women were created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). In our church we don't consider the Epistles to be the Word of God, but rather the words of the fallible apostles. I think you're right that Christianity has been and often still is a boys club, but I don't think that was Christ's intention. Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-57402643922987441562018-03-07T08:12:00.272-08:002018-03-07T08:12:00.272-08:00Adam and Eve did not happen in reality. It is a my...Adam and Eve did not happen in reality. It is a myth to serve and underpin male exploitation and hatred of women. 1 Corinthians 11 regards woman as a secondary, derivative creation, lacking agency, dignity and value. Ultimately Christianity is a boys only club with no relevance for women. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-41413969696346852312017-11-21T08:35:50.375-08:002017-11-21T08:35:50.375-08:00Thanks for your comments. I agree with you that w...Thanks for your comments. I agree with you that woman can be just as intellectual as men (and sometime more). Both men and women have will and intellect, heart and mind. I think when Swedenborg wrote in his book Conjugial Love that “a female is born with a love for joining herself to that affection (for becoming wise) in the male” he wasn’t talking about the regular intelligence and wisdom that both men and women have, he was talking about something different. In that book he identifies “True Conjugial Love” as a special kind of spiritual true marriage love which flows from the Lord through a wife into her husband. But in order for that love to be received by her husband, the man has to have something in him to receive it, and that thing is essentially “True Conjugial Wisdom.” My understanding is that this “wisdom” is when a man uses his intellect to choose to love only one woman (his wife). I think Swedenborg is saying that women typically love it when a man has the affection for that kind of wisdom. <br /><br />It’s a very good point that Jesus didn’t shy away from being counter-cultural. But I do think that given the extreme patriarchy of the time, a female Messiah would not have been able to have the same impact as a male Messiah. <br /><br />My understanding is that God’s call is for men and women to support each other equally. <br /><br />My wife has written a wonderful paper about the feminine side of God, which you can read on her blog if you’re interested: https://exploringtirah.blogspot.com/Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-3727872366629754152017-11-16T07:43:58.121-08:002017-11-16T07:43:58.121-08:00I’m a 19 year old female and I’m trying to get to ...I’m a 19 year old female and I’m trying to get to know God. Unfortunately, I find it really hard to accept Christ into my heart because I feel HE doesn’t truly understand me. <br />This article helped me a lot, and I appreciate the parenthetical sources and deep thought. However, when it’s stated that women are built with a love for joining herself with that affection for intellect within the male, I just get confused. <br />I’m a natural intellect. I was the top student of my college calculus series as a high schooler, graduated valedictorian, and have been accepted to prestigious universities for engineering. <br />Maybe it’s the people I spend my time with but I’ve noticed in my life that women have if anything, been MORE intellectually and curiosity driven than most men. At least, for myself that is true.<br />So I guess my question is, if those so called “masculine” features are so predominant in some women, such as myself, (I’m sure some men have predominantly more “femanine” features) then why did Jesus have to be a physical man? He could have been a physical woman with those masculine features, like me.<br />Also, I don’t think he came as a man so that society would accept. From what I’ve read in the Bible, he didn’t give a crap whether society accepted him.<br />I tried to ask my dad about this and he said that God’s call to women was to support men and be homemakers. That freaks me out and is the reason so many of my friends won’t go to church. <br />I really wish I could tell them something else, I wish I could tell myself something else.<br />How does a naturally curious, intellectual, career oriented, love manifesting as wisdom, women be understood by Christ? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-89072979145981831782016-10-25T12:41:11.654-07:002016-10-25T12:41:11.654-07:00Hi Jan and Mary. Thanks for your comments. One ...Hi Jan and Mary. Thanks for your comments. One of the first statements in the Bible is that both men and women were created in the image of God (see Genesis 1:27). I believe that the parable of Adam and Eve describes aspects of all people (see http://whatthebiblesays.info/AdamandEve.html). There’s an “Adam” and an “Eve” in all of us. We need to make sure our will is in submission to our understanding of God’s Word. But I do not believe that God intended for one gender to be in submission to another gender (see http://whatthebiblesays.info/SexualEquality.html). One gender is not closer to God than another. “There is neither male nor female: For you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 4:28). One gender is not more or less sinful than another. We are all cursed by the power of Hell in our life. Our job (whether man or woman) is to submit ourselves to God’s leadership and authority. And I recognize that people have different ways of seeing and understanding the Bible. I am simply sharing how I understanding God’s Word. Thanks again for your thoughts. Peace. Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-11348947691247472192016-10-25T08:47:41.347-07:002016-10-25T08:47:41.347-07:00Dear Jan, I totally agree with your comment. We co...Dear Jan, I totally agree with your comment. We could certainly understand the Godly order of creation only by taking the WORD OF GOD as the final authority, if so we can be clear in why Jesus was born a male.Marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-8870516120763608002016-03-31T11:32:00.834-07:002016-03-31T11:32:00.834-07:00Mr.Solomon Keal- however much you try to please me...Mr.Solomon Keal- however much you try to please men and women you will not succeed.<br />Why?-As Su Mary Diedricks pointed out you cannot merely attribute subjective gender stereotypes that may or may not change.<br />The only thing that won't change is God and God's Word - Bible.<br />Bible points out that God created Adam first,then Eve.Eve fell into sin first,not Adam- For these reasons submission is required from women-1 Thimothy 2:9-15.-But Why?<br />Because Women are under enimity from Satan due to curse of the original sin(Eden Garden)Genesis 3:15.<br /><br />We must understand God created all creation to project his glory.<br />That is why 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 and particularly 1 Corinthians 11:3 says God is the head of Christ ,Christ is the head of man,Man is the head of woman and Woman is the head of Angels(1 Corinthians 11:10).<br /><br />So since Man reflects the Glory of Christ-God,Woman reflect the glory of Man,and Angels reflect the glory of Woman.<br />This is the order in which spirit beings reflect the Glory of God the father-Elohim-That is God-Christ-Man-Woman-Angel.<br /><br />Thus Jesus came as man and not woman inorder to project the God's order of glory-God-Christ-Man-Woman-Angel.<br />Because of this and also of because Eve sinned first at Garden of Eden ,God requires submission from women.<br />That is why God donot allow women to be Pastors/Overseers /Bishops in 1 Thimothy 3:1-7.<br />But God allows Women in all other formes of ministry like Deacons-1 Corinthians 3:11,Phoebe,Apostle Junia,Synteche,Eudia,Mary etc.- That is women can preach and teach the Gospel and God's Word as long as they donot dominate over men.<br /><br />Women can preach the Gospel-Evangelize and plant churches and thus can be Apostles, but women are still not allowed to be Pastor/Overseer /Bishop of the local church ,inorder to reflect the Godly order of creation.Jan Zizkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05339580121954376004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-64499689275458874622016-03-17T14:05:03.803-07:002016-03-17T14:05:03.803-07:00Hi Su-Mari. Thanks for your comments! I’m sorr...Hi Su-Mari. Thanks for your comments! I’m sorry that this paper came across as sexist to you. That was certainly not my intent, or what I stand for. I’m actually one of the few members in the clergy of my church who is working to open up the clergy to women (it’s unfortunately still an exclusively male-only clergy). As I said in a comment above: I believe in the balance and equality of the sexes. The purpose of my paper was to try to challenge the assumption that God is exclusively male, using the theological writings of my denomination. Those theological writings were written down by a single man in the 18th century at a time when patriarchy was the norm. And so they contain quotes such as the following which can sound pretty sexist: “A male is born with an affection for knowing, understanding and becoming wise, while a female is born with a love for joining herself to that affection in the male.” (E. Swedenborg. “Married Love” 33). But in many other places Swedenborg talks about how the affection for knowing, understanding and becoming wise is a human trait, not just a masculine trait. “People [both men and women] have nothing else innate except a faculty for knowing, understanding, and becoming wise, as well as a tendency to love not only knowledge, understanding, and wisdom but also their neighbor and their God. (E. Swedenborg. “True Christianity” 335.7) Everybody (both men and women) wants to know and understanding things; it’s natural human curiosity. Both men and women are capable of being intelligent and wise. And of course men desire the affections of women, just as women desire the affections of men. I’m sorry if you thought I was saying otherwise. As much as the 18th century language of Swedenborg can sound misogynistic at times, his works were actually surprisingly not misogynistic for his time period. For example, he talked about a kind of wisdom that women have which exceeds the wisdom of men (See E. Swedenborg. “Married Love” 208.2). And over and over he tried to show that the masculine and feminine are two equal and complementary parts of humanity. Anyway, because of the nature and intended audience for this paper, it focussed largely on Swedenborg’s theological works. However, in addition to quotes from that source, this paper contains a number of Biblical verses, specifically in reference to the Scriptural feminine imagery for God. I don’t know if anything I’ve said has addressed or alleviated your concerns or not. If you’re interested, I have another paper (a much longer one) called “A Doctrinal Foundation for a Gender-Inclusive Clergy in the General Church.” Once again, that paper’s intended audience is pretty specific (primary the clergy and membership of my small denomination based on the Bible and the theological works of Swedenborg), but it does describe in more detail my beliefs about the equality of men and women. Thanks again for your thoughts. I hope you have a great day. Peace. Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-74839141284766000142016-03-11T05:15:36.264-08:002016-03-11T05:15:36.264-08:00...... I find this sexist.... Woman desire the aff......... I find this sexist.... Woman desire the affections of a man, and doesn't seek to understand and obtain knowledge/wisdom....? Brother..... No. Just, NO. I'm an engineer that happens to have physical female part. But as far as I am concerned, I fall under the category of description of a man, according to you. No, I'm not a lesbian. No, I'm not a feminazi. Yes, I'm saved. It would've been more credible if you used biblical verses to state your insight, not books that represent narrow-minded opinions. Like said by Anonymous; wisdom is described as a woman. Nagtegalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15793294280229990746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-5169214472564655752014-09-17T15:15:52.245-07:002014-09-17T15:15:52.245-07:00proverbs 3: 13-19 1 cor. 1:24 maybe when Jesus w...proverbs 3: 13-19 1 cor. 1:24 maybe when Jesus was with God in the beginning Jesus (wisdom) was female. Coming to earth in the flesh, Jesus needed to be male because a female wouldn't be allowed to teach in Israel at that time. At least that way Genesis makes sense. It's just a thought, that's all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-18042068079594815172013-12-04T15:38:36.536-08:002013-12-04T15:38:36.536-08:00Hey, thanks for the informative post! I feel much ...Hey, thanks for the informative post! I feel much better about myself now. Before I used to wonder exactly why God created women (other than being a partner). I always wished there was a deeper meaning behind it and was actually jealous that God only created men in His image. A lot of times I wished I were a man because then I would be the "favored and loved one." But I'm really starting to believe men and women are images of different aspects of God. I know some men think women were created in their image, and there's actually a Bible verse saying that. But to me, it sounds like they're proclaiming they are gods or like God. Men and women are just way too different, and only God understands each gender perfectly. I hope that reasoning makes sense. <br /><br />God's views on women and what God was thinking when Eve was created is kind of a mystery. Plenty is known about men and God's views on them, IMO. But women--not so much. <br /><br />Thanks for shining light on the subject and writing such a thoughtful post. I hope your paper was successful!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07024806910140939289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-11512331325634955852013-07-16T14:19:42.569-07:002013-07-16T14:19:42.569-07:00Hello! Thank you for your comments and concerns. ...Hello! Thank you for your comments and concerns. I want to reassure you that I share many of your concerns. I too don’t believe that we should have a gender pay gap between men and women working in the same jobs. I believe in the balance and equality of the sexes. The purpose of my paper was to try to challenge the assumption that God is male, using the theological writings of my denomination. <br /> And I’m not surprised that you were tempted to think that this paper was written in the 19th century. It was based on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg who was a theologian in the 18th century. A lot of the phrasing in my paper comes from quoting and using his 18th century terminology. <br /> Swedenborg uses terminology like “intellect-oriented” and “will-oriented” to try to indicate the differences between the sexes. This doesn’t mean that women aren’t intelligent, or that men aren’t emotional. And Swedenborg acknowledges this in his book “Heaven and Hell” (paragraph number 369). As you say, IQ doesn’t discriminate between gender. It’s just a way of describing the general tendencies between the sexes as a whole. Scientists have shown that in general men and women’s brains are different. Here’s an article that talks about the difference between male and female brains (http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ). While there are definitely differences, how to describe those differences can be difficult to pinpoint. Especially because not all men are the same, and not all women are the same. Lately I’ve tended to use the terms “distinction” and “conjunction.” From what I’ve learned, it seems that men in general tend to focus on distinction (separating things out, putting things in boxes, etc.), while women tend to focus on conjunction (seeing how things fit together). And this would apply to both cognitive things and emotional things. (I like this comedian’s take on it, even though it’s a comedic exaggerated stereotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxckAMaTDc). <br /> And science has also shown that there are “bridge-brains” (see this article: http://www.infoq.com/articles/gender-intelligence) in which a certain percentage of men have brains that function more like women’s, and vice versa. I think in some ways my wife and I might fall into that category. There is even a passage in Swedenborg’s writings which indicates that sometimes men and women seem one way, and other times they seem the opposite. Sometimes it’s the women who have the urge to know, and the men who are more affectional (see Swedenborg’s work “Arcana Coelestia” paragraph number 8994.4). <br /> I think it’s really important to try to understand the differences between men and women, not so that we can be separated, but so that men and women can work better together, and so we can respect each other for our differences. I think Jesus did a lot to begin that process while he was on earth. He dispelled a lot of the sense of the need for hierarchy between men and women. And I think the world is much better for it now, even though we still have work to do to continue to achieve greater balance and equality between the sexes. I’m currently working on a paper to present to the clergy of my denomination on why I think we should ordain women into the priesthood. <br /> So thanks again for sharing your comments and concerns. I’d be interested to hear more of your thoughts on this topic. <br />Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-5460182941942795152013-07-13T15:49:00.390-07:002013-07-13T15:49:00.390-07:00If this didn't have a date, I'd be tempted...If this didn't have a date, I'd be tempted to think you posted this in the 19th century. "A male is born intellect-oriented and ... a female is born will-oriented, or in other words, ... a male is born with an affection for knowing, understanding and becoming wise, while a female is born with a love for joining herself to that affection in the male." I am a female, yet extremely intellectually oriented. I can say I was not born with the desire to join myself to a male and his affections. I have no motherly drive, view marriage as a cage, and have an unquenchable drive to know, piece together, synthesize, and understand. Your views on this are exactly why there is still a gender pay gap between men and women working in the same jobs with equal levels of education. I can say that is it fairly obvious that Elizabeth I had no desire to join herself with a man. She was an avid scholar from the time she was a small child. Despite the rumors of an affair with her Master of Horse, Robert Dudley, she never acted on whatever impulses may have existed. Marie Curie also had the desire to know. I think a beneficial and educating line of study for you would be to research personality type. It has been verified that we are all born with certain tendencies. What if I was born with your so-called masculine tendencies? Too bad for me? Mistake in the manufacturing process? Repress my thirst for knowledge and relegate myself to supporting a man emotionally? Can these labels (masculine, feminine) really apply to every member of their respective gender? I know boys who are more caring than I. Every boy I have known has regarded me in the light of a nerd stereotype. Part of IQ, the measure of logical & abstract thinking, is the desire to puzzle things out. IQ doesn't discriminate between gender. There was an interesting anecdote in a book on physics paradoxes I recently read. Vos Savant, a woman with an IQ of 185, the highest at that time, had a column where readers submitted their most challenging mathematical problems. One such problem was the Monty Hall Paradox. Basically, as it is too lengthy to describe here, she correctly solved the paradox and subsequently got hate mail from male mathematicians telling her if she didn't understand mathematics then she should take herself away from the column for the good of everyone. Those male mathematicians didn't even both to solve the paradox to begin with, so sure they were that they were right. You cannot put men and women into these boxes that determine how this gender acts and this gender acts. Women scientists serve to debunk your statement that it is the men who have the urge to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-5948198877029542412010-03-14T18:47:15.398-07:002010-03-14T18:47:15.398-07:00Yeah, I'm not sure exactly in what direction i...Yeah, I'm not sure exactly in what direction it bears weight on the issue of an all-male priesthood. I like to think of the priesthood as being a part of the church, and therefore a part of that feminine form. This study does raise some interesting questions on the subject of an all-male priesthood. I would be interested to study that further.Solomon Kealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912595870334330927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3219484551381443083.post-21447678270862930432010-03-14T16:27:34.100-07:002010-03-14T16:27:34.100-07:00Thank you Solomon for this in-depth study! I reall...Thank you Solomon for this in-depth study! I really appreciate the research and thought that went into it, and I really love the picture of the Lord within us, as the church, being the unsee-able feminine side. Also of course this can be carried to bear weight on the issue of an all-male priesthood! Thanks again!Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12992503284687180130noreply@blogger.com